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Voice-activity indicators on spaces and subspaces (opt-in experiment until delayed events are common) #94

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opened 2026-10-07 20:25:52 +00:00 by robocub · 0 comments

robocub commented

2026-10-07 20:25:52 +00:00

Member

Why

Discord puts a speaker (or screen) icon on a server in the sidebar when someone in a channel you can see is in voice or streaming. The same thing works on Matrix for spaces and subspaces, built from call membership state the client already receives.

Proposal

1. Expiry-aware call-participant helper (needed by this issue and by Friends → Active Now)

MatrixVoipRoomComponent.getCurrentParticipants() counts every non-empty org.matrix.msc3401.call.member and ignores expires. On a homeserver without delayed events (MSC4140), a crashed client's membership never gets removed, so it stays listed in the voice room's member list indefinitely.
MatrixActivitiesComponent already skips expired memberships; share one helper between the two.
The helper should treat a membership as live only if it isn't empty and hasn't passed its expiry time (created_ts, else origin_server_ts, + expires).

2. Space / subspace indicator (opt-in experiment)

A space icon gets a voice badge if any joined room in it, or in any of its subspaces, has a live call member. A subspace gets its own badge; the top-level space shows the combined result.
Rooms you haven't joined don't send us their state, so they can't contribute. That roughly matches Discord's "channels you can access".
Experiment toggle, off by default. Without delayed events, a crashed client's membership lasts until expires: up to 4 h for Commet/Vommet's own memberships, and Element Call's default is similar. That's long enough for false "someone's in voice" badges. Make it default-on once delayed events are common (see support table).

3. Video / screen-share badge (later)

Membership events don't say whether someone has video or screen share on; only LiveKit knows that. Joining calls silently to find out is rejected: heavy, a privacy problem, and it would show us as present.
Option: Vommet adds a field to its own membership, e.g. im.nether.vommet.media: ["video","screen"], and re-posts it when sharing starts or stops. Other clients ignore unknown fields. It only lights up for Vommet users; the voice bridge could set it for Discord Go Live.

Sliding sync (#5)

Indicators must never slow down the first sync.

First list: visible rooms, minimal state, no call or space-tree state.
After the first response, add a background list with required_state = org.matrix.msc3401.call.member + m.space.child, timeline_limit: 0, and a range that grows (100 → 500 → all). It has to cover all rooms, not just the visible window; after that, changes are pushed live.
Cache last-known indicators locally and draw them at startup; the expiry check removes stale cached badges.
Verify Tuwunel handles multiple lists, growing ranges and per-list required_state before relying on it.

Delayed events (MSC4140) support, probed 2026-10-07

Method: unstable_features["org.matrix.msc4140"] in /_matrix/client/versions, and server name/version from federation /version.

Server	Software	MSC4140
matrix.org	Synapse 1.163.0rc1	off
kde.org, gitter.im, fosdem.org	Synapse 1.162.0+pro.1	on
tchncs.de, 4d2.org, unredacted.org	Synapse 1.162.0	on
beeper.com	Synapse 1.160.0	on
matrix.im, nitro.chat, fairydust.space	Synapse 1.162.0	off
converser.eu	Synapse 1.160.0	off
continuwuity.org, federated.nexus, explodie.org	continuwuity 26.9.1	not implemented (endpoint 404)
nether.im	Tuwunel 1.9.3	not implemented (endpoint 404); matrix-construct/tuwunel PR #555 open, issue #178

Takeaways:

Synapse implements it but it's per-server opt-in; the endpoint exists either way, so check the feature flag, not the endpoint.
The Rust Conduit family doesn't implement it yet.
The largest server, matrix.org, advertises it off.
Vommet already uses delayed events (heartbeat/leave in matrix_livekit_voip_session.dart) when the flag is advertised, so nothing is needed client-side; this is purely about other people's crashed clients.

## Why Discord puts a speaker (or screen) icon on a server in the sidebar when someone in a channel you can see is in voice or streaming. The same thing works on Matrix for spaces and subspaces, built from call membership state the client already receives. ## Proposal **1. Expiry-aware call-participant helper** (needed by this issue and by Friends → Active Now) - `MatrixVoipRoomComponent.getCurrentParticipants()` counts every non-empty `org.matrix.msc3401.call.member` and **ignores `expires`**. On a homeserver without delayed events (MSC4140), a crashed client's membership never gets removed, so it stays listed in the voice room's member list indefinitely. - `MatrixActivitiesComponent` already skips expired memberships; share one helper between the two. - The helper should treat a membership as live only if it isn't empty and hasn't passed its expiry time (`created_ts`, else `origin_server_ts`, + `expires`). **2. Space / subspace indicator (opt-in experiment)** - A space icon gets a voice badge if any **joined** room in it, or in any of its subspaces, has a live call member. A subspace gets its own badge; the top-level space shows the combined result. - Rooms you haven't joined don't send us their state, so they can't contribute. That roughly matches Discord's "channels you can access". - **Experiment toggle, off by default.** Without delayed events, a crashed client's membership lasts until `expires`: up to 4 h for Commet/Vommet's own memberships, and Element Call's default is similar. That's long enough for false "someone's in voice" badges. Make it default-on once delayed events are common (see support table). **3. Video / screen-share badge (later)** - Membership events don't say whether someone has video or screen share on; only LiveKit knows that. Joining calls silently to find out is rejected: heavy, a privacy problem, and it would show us as present. - Option: Vommet adds a field to its own membership, e.g. `im.nether.vommet.media: ["video","screen"]`, and re-posts it when sharing starts or stops. Other clients ignore unknown fields. It only lights up for Vommet users; the voice bridge could set it for Discord Go Live. ## Sliding sync (#5) Indicators must never slow down the first sync. - First list: visible rooms, minimal state, no call or space-tree state. - After the first response, add a background list with `required_state` = `org.matrix.msc3401.call.member` + `m.space.child`, `timeline_limit: 0`, and a range that grows (100 → 500 → all). It has to cover all rooms, not just the visible window; after that, changes are pushed live. - Cache last-known indicators locally and draw them at startup; the expiry check removes stale cached badges. - Verify Tuwunel handles multiple lists, growing ranges and per-list `required_state` before relying on it. ## Delayed events (MSC4140) support, probed 2026-10-07 Method: `unstable_features["org.matrix.msc4140"]` in `/_matrix/client/versions`, and server name/version from federation `/version`. | Server | Software | MSC4140 | |---|---|---| | matrix.org | Synapse 1.163.0rc1 | **off** | | kde.org, gitter.im, fosdem.org | Synapse 1.162.0+pro.1 | on | | tchncs.de, 4d2.org, unredacted.org | Synapse 1.162.0 | on | | beeper.com | Synapse 1.160.0 | on | | matrix.im, nitro.chat, fairydust.space | Synapse 1.162.0 | off | | converser.eu | Synapse 1.160.0 | off | | continuwuity.org, federated.nexus, explodie.org | continuwuity 26.9.1 | **not implemented** (endpoint 404) | | nether.im | Tuwunel 1.9.3 | **not implemented** (endpoint 404); matrix-construct/tuwunel PR #555 open, issue #178 | Takeaways: - Synapse implements it but it's per-server opt-in; the endpoint exists either way, so check the feature flag, not the endpoint. - The Rust Conduit family doesn't implement it yet. - The largest server, matrix.org, advertises it off. - Vommet already uses delayed events (heartbeat/leave in `matrix_livekit_voip_session.dart`) when the flag is advertised, so nothing is needed client-side; this is purely about other people's crashed clients.

robocub added the

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effort: medium

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2026-10-07 20:25:52 +00:00

robocub referenced this issue

2026-10-07 20:26:01 +00:00

Friends tab on Home (Discord-style): one-way friends list, presence, nicknames, Active Now #93

robocub referenced this issue

2026-10-07 20:26:01 +00:00

Simplified sliding sync (MSC4186) #5

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sync/topic/fix/call-join-retry

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sync/topic/fix/room-view-dispose-races

sync/topic/fix/screenshare-audio-app-names

sync/topic/fix/screenshare-audio-wayland-order

sync/topic/fix/screenshare-desktop-no-apm

sync/topic/fix/screenshare-one-at-a-time

sync/topic/fix/startup-launch-test

sync/topic/feat/native-oidc

sync/topic/feat/quick-audio-output

sync/topic/feat/quick-profile-controls

sync/topic/feat/telemetry-call-leave

sync/topic/feat/telemetry-capture

sync/topic/feat/telemetry-exit-reason

sync/topic/feat/telemetry-native-trace

sync/topic/feat/telemetry-timeline

sync/topic/feat/voice-isolation

sync/topic/feat/voice-quick-controls

sync/topic/feat/whats-new

sync/topic/fix/android-onaddtrack-race

sync/topic/fix/telemetry-consent-look

sync/topic/perf/lazy-side-room-lists

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sync/topic/ci/integration-banners

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sync/topic/ci/integration-tests

sync/topic/feat/discover

sync/topic/feat/sliding-sync

sync/topic/feat/welcome-first-login

sync/topic/fix/banner-thumbnail-scale

sync/topic/fix/image-fullres-cache

sync/topic/fix/missing-media

sync/topic/fix/notification-fallback

sync/topic/fix/room-preview-deleted

sync/topic/fix/startup-splash-until-loaded

sync/topic/fix/sticker-picker-resolution

sync/topic/fix/voip-late-joiner-tiles

sync/topic/perf/lazy-home-room-list

sync/topic/perf/postload-keep-ui-responsive

sync/topic/perf/startup-postload-queue

sync/topic/ci/flatpak

sync/topic/ci/fork-invariants

sync/topic/feat/banner-headers

sync/topic/feat/desktop-copy-selection

sync/topic/feat/gradient-themes

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sync/topic/feat/personal-packs

sync/topic/feat/room-banners

sync/topic/feat/room-picker-search

sync/topic/feat/space-remove-room

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sync/topic/ci/android-apk

sync/topic/chore/branding

sync/topic/chore/fork-settings

sync/topic/ci/version-label

sync/topic/fix/commet-badges-display-only

feat/whats-new

sync/main

fix/android-onaddtrack-race

fix/call-view-follow-replaced-stream

feat/telemetry-call-leave

fix/screenshare-desktop-no-apm

fix/call-join-retry

feat/banner-panes

feat/telemetry

feat/quick-audio-output

feat/quick-profile-controls

feat/telemetry-timeline

feat/voice-quick-controls

fix/commet-badges-display-only

docs/soundboard-spec

testing

ci/xplat

feat/native-oidc

feat/screenshare-audio-picker

feat/screenshare-audio-stereo

feat/telemetry-capture

feat/telemetry-exit-reason

feat/telemetry-native-trace

feat/voice-isolation

fix/room-view-dispose-races

fix/screenshare-audio-app-names

fix/screenshare-audio-wayland-order

fix/screenshare-one-at-a-time

fix/startup-launch-test

fix/telemetry-consent-look

perf/lazy-side-room-lists

feat/dm-toggle-and-menu-tooltips

fix/profile-nickname-others

ci/integration-banners

ci/integration-mosaic

feat/discover

feat/screenshare-audio-linux

feat/screenshare-audio-upstream

feat/sliding-sync

feat/welcome-first-login

fix/accept-dm-invite

fix/banner-thumbnail-scale

fix/image-fullres-cache

fix/missing-media

fix/room-preview-deleted

fix/startup-splash-until-loaded

fix/sticker-picker-resolution

fix/voip-late-joiner-tiles

perf/lazy-home-room-list

perf/postload-keep-ui-responsive

perf/startup-postload-queue

ci/flatpak

ci/fork-invariants

ci/integration-tests

feat/banner-headers

feat/desktop-copy-selection

feat/gradient-themes

feat/media-mosaic

feat/personal-packs

feat/room-banners

feat/room-picker-search

feat/space-remove-room

feat/sso-first-login

feat/telegram-sticker-import

feat/voice-messages

fix/linux-app-id

fix/notification-fallback

fix/own-push-gateway

ci/android-apk

chore/branding

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ci/version-label

feat/matrix-links

fix/splash-timeout-crash

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